|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Silver Night
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 09:34:00 -
[1]
I think possibly a more strictly limited tool specifically for isk transfers. Make it automated, but make it so that the party asking for the transfer has to be in-game.
Using the API in quite the way I think you are suggesting would probably ring too many warning bells for too many people. Perhaps instead something like a corporation role, but not needing a roll in the corporation in question.
A good idea, but too flexible. |
Silver Night
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 11:00:00 -
[2]
I would like to point out one thing.
A lot of the concerns that people seem to have in this thread regard banks in general, rather than Hexxx's idea specifically.
There are, as he mentions, a number of large successful banks already. EBank especially has addressed virtually all of the issues people have raised quite successfully, and runs on a relatively sophisticated system.
I would urge anyone who is unfamiliar with the current state of banking in Eve:
Read the Market Discussion Forum!
The vast majority of the problems (excepting the one that Hexxx is actually talking about) have already been pretty comprehensively addressed. Hexxx's problem is of course more on the bank's side, and only to be expected as a bank scales up. |
Silver Night
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 11:56:00 -
[3]
I want to mention that I, personally, have seen EBank grow. I thought you guys didn't have a chance in hell at first. I can't tell you how impressive what you guys have done is. I want to thank the players that have worked hard at it and created probably the most professional player run institution in any game ever.
Ebank board > Dr E any day.
I think you are right, and it is CCP's turn to provide some tools for player banking. While I don't think Hexxx's solution would work - due to potential exploitibility and paranoia if nothing else - they sure as hell need to do something so you can run a bank instead of doing constant grunt work. Some kind of massive corporation interface extension maybe. It is just gonna be tough to create anything that can take money out of a player's (This would be the teller) wallet automatically. I'm sure there has got to be a solution though.
(Even if most of my money is in FB. What can I say, interest rates) --------------
GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter Murderer of (his own) Frigates.
|
Silver Night
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 12:24:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ambo Not read everything but skim read most of it...
Lets assume for a minute that CCP thinks this is a good idea and implements it. How exactly would it work? You clearly can't just send a web request to move x isk from y player to z player. You'd need security. API key is not sufficient for this, even the limited access one because then anyone with your limited access API key could transfer money out of your account and there are several sites around that require you to enter it.
So we need somthing else... let's call it the IsKey. (¬) Now for this to work, players will have to provide thier IsKey to E-Bank. This means that not only does E-Bank have access to hundreds of billions of deposited capital but also could freely transfer ISK from the wallet of any of it's customers.
Imo this is simply not acceptable, no matter how trusted the person/organisation is.
The only secure solution (imo) would be for the player to supply a code that changes every time they use it, this would allow the one-time transfer to go through.
However, it's still not a service that I would want to make use of. The whole thing is just far too dangerous imo.
I'm fairly sure that what he is talking about isn't using player wallets as accounts. This would be being able to log in and transfer money from a bank account to a player wallet. Obviously the key is making sure players only have access to their own accounts.
This is what the bank does now, but the problem is a person has to manually fulfill all these withdraws and such (on the bank's end). With an automatic system, it would go from the bank to the player automatically. this would simultaneously make banking instant, and free up Bank people for all the other massive administration they have to take care of. --------------
GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter Murderer of (his own) Frigates.
|
Silver Night
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 12:36:00 -
[5]
Essentially a CCP created macro?
Makes good sense to me. --------------
GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter Murderer of (his own) Frigates.
|
Silver Night
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 20:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Trathen Edited by: Trathen on 15/04/2008 19:51:13 A successful bank is also extremely powerful. I don't think CCP would want to EZMode an endeavor such as this with a programmable API so one man can run a bank. That said, I think if CCP ever wanted to add depth to make it possible, a wickedly diverse improvement to custom contracts could really launch good banks (Definitely something cool you could set up in Ambulation. You could even make people wait in line for 30 minutes :) ).
If you take a look at any of the current in-game banks, I doubt you could call what they do 'EZ Mode' by any stretch. Even with the manual transacting removed. --------------
GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter Murderer of (his own) Frigates.
|
Silver Night
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.04.16 09:05:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Silver Night on 16/04/2008 09:07:15
Originally by: Merdaneth To put all the grandiose ideas into perspective:
EVE is a town with about 150,000 residents and 50,000 transients. Most of the townspeople are only part-time residents, spending no more than a few hours each week in town. The EVE economy is not a large interstellar economy, it is a tiny townsized economy.
That is one way to look at it. On the other hand, it may be a bit silly to try to draw such a direct comparison. For example, to extend your analogy, would then 20% of the people in your notional town produce all the cars people drive in the town? (and this isn't a straw man. The way production and goods distribution happens in the Eve economy speaks directly to/against his argument) Where does capital ship manufacturing fit in? What about the high turnover due to ship loss? Hell, the fact that the entire chain of production and consumption is played out within your town?
And without banks, how are your town's residents supposed to finance things? IPOs? Save money until they have enough? Or you can go to the Ebank website right now and fill out a loan application. How awesome is that?
And, even if we stuck with your analogy, I think you are underestimating the complexity of a town with 150k people in it. Not to mention the vast array of tools that any bank in such a community would have.
Some needed features in an economy are not linked to size. They are linked to the fact that there is an economy at all. Basic banking tools are one of these things. The fact that over 1% of the money in the eve economy is in these banks, even with relatively low exposure that they receive, would seem to suggest that they are both in demand and a reasonable thing for the game to have.
--------------
GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter Murderer of (his own) Frigates.
|
Silver Night
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.04.16 20:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Elder Langley
I do not RP I do bank with Ebank I do not post often
I don't know how clear it is from this thread, but people don't bank with EBank for RP reasons. They do it because you make money on your account. Most of my money is with Fury Bank (Higher interest), but many people prefer EBank because it is more secure and convenient.
Just like EBank doesn't give free loans, they charge (competitive) interest. |
Silver Night
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.04.17 05:53:00 -
[9]
I would also point out that a number of the larger industrial operations have used bank loans. This includes both Cap ship and large scale invention operations. There is a good chance that that Thantos or Golem you are flying was in part financed by an EBank loan. Because you know what? That 1% of Eve that uses them, I would be willing to bet, is disproportionately represented in in the higher income brackets. Which would be the people that know about money and its uses. --------------
GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter Murderer of (his own) Frigates.
|
Silver Night
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.04.17 17:30:00 -
[10]
I think your are wrong in assuming there aren't enough customers for banks. Even with extremely limited exposure (The main advertising for EBank has essentially been through the MD forum. How much of the player base reads the forums at all, much less that sub-forum?) EBank has managed to attain 400B in deposits by itself. And this is, remember, with a cap on the per-account amount allowed at them moment.
This would suggest there obviously is a demand for banks. Equally there seems to be significant demand for loans, since all of the banks that provide that service seem to do brisk business in it.
While your argument is well written, the facts wouldn't seem to back it up? And I know you had other points, but I am only a simple frigate pilot, and deal with things best one at a time. |
|
Silver Night
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.04.17 17:52:00 -
[11]
How high is liquidity for someone with a complex industrial operation for example? Or who owns a number of BPOs that are valuable, but don't sell quickly on the market?
Additionally, with every teller you are increasing the risk of one running off with money. You talk about it like trustworthy people just fly by all the time in this game. You do recall the sort of place Eve is, right? --------------
GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter Murderer of (his own) Frigates.
|
|
|
|